Hello, I am trying to plan out the next 5-10 years and would appreciate advice from those of you who who’ve gone through or just know about this topic much more than I. About me and the problem I’m facing / my drive. I am 31. Graduated with a BA in Mathematics from a state school in 2019. I have a Data Science certificate from a bootcamp. I’m in my first role as a DS for about 6 months now, in smaller to medium sized company, nothing major. I have a GF I’ve been with for 7 years. She supported me through college and paid for my bootcamp. We would like to start a family, but we made the decision to wait until I’m done with school and we can financially support the life we bring into this world. She does not pressure me at all, but I know she is uneasy as she starts to get older and her fertility rate goes down (She is 28). Therefore, and I know one shouldn’t strictly do this, but I am chasing the money. We both grew up on welfare. We do not need to be rich, but we need to be financially steady... and sooner rather than later. I have given up most things in my life and just focus on saving, but even so it’ll still take me a while to save enough to buy a house. Unfortunately, it has to be in CA because all of our family are there. I’ve done lots of research and planning, but I cant find information on somethings, so for the sake of planning a better and more realistic time frame, please answer me this. With only a BA in Math, DS certificate, and 1-1.5 years of experience as a DS, what are the chances of me landing an L3 or L4 role in FANG companies? Again, I’ve done many research and I know I have better chances at some than other. At the moment, I am really looking at Uber, Google, and Apple. They have positions open for people with my background. But realistically, will the roles be L3 or L4? Ideally I would like to get in as L4 after 1 YOE at my current role, but I fear not having a MS will automatically put me in L3 levels only. What’s my best chance to get in right away as an L4? Or is working my way up from L3 my best bet? These are my other possible options. 1- Stay with my current company until I have 2 YOE. Will 1 YOE and 2 YOE on the same job make a difference to hiring managers? 2-From now until 1.5 YOE, work on getting an online MS in DS. I’m rushing on time, so I will be doing those 10 month programs instead of the traditional 1-2 years. Will hiring managers care that I got a MS in at an unprestigious online school? Like Eastern University? I would like to save as much as possible, so is the investment (10k) worth it? 3-Stay for 2 years at current company plus get an online MS in DS. Couple of notes I am confident I can pass the interviews or at least one out of the many options. My struggle is how can I make recruiters look at my resume and choose me out of the many applicants, given my few experiences. I am not a unicorn. I am just a hard worker. I have a goal that will affect many around me. I really do have a lot of weight on my shoulders, but I accept it all and just want to make those around me happy. If I accomplish my goal of making a down payment for a house and being able to provide for my family, I could stay at the salary range or less forever. My problem is not I want to be rich, it’s that I need money now to jumpstart my life only. Please, any suggestions or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
Without the masters degree, getting in as L4 with only 1 YOE will be extremely difficult. But 2 YOE + BA will do! I would recommend staying at your current role for 2 years then start applying as you hit the 2-year mark. Alternatively you can apply for L3 and work your way up as suggested above. I find there are a lot more opportunities for L4 than L3.
Thanks for your input! I agree with you, but I really don’t want to wait for 2 years here. That was actually my first plan when I signed up, but the problem is the pay is around 80k. This is not a bad salary for the location, but it also means it’ll take longer to save up. I plan to live in the cheapest (<2k) housing in SF and just save up to buy a house. I think at 1 year-1.5 year, I will start to apply. Thanks again
You’re welcome! I understand the urge to move, especially with your family situation. My first job out of college also paid me ~80k. Shortly after I joined the firm, I hated it my job so much that I always thought of getting out. I started applying for FANG DS/DA roles as soon as I hit my 1-year mark but found it extremely difficult to land an interview, let alone a job offer. The FB recruiter frankly told me that they needed at least 2 YOE to move to the next step, but at that time I got only 1.5 YOE. I definitely got more interviews when I applied after 2 YOE. It was incredible how that additional 6 months of experience could get you through the resume screening round at many firms. I think time flies really fast when you’re working. Keep your study plan, brush up on your knowledge and skills, study for the interviews. Once you get enough YOE and start applying, it’ll be a quick turnaround. Good luck!!!
Just want to offer my best wishes and support, as I grew up in similar circumstances and also didn't feel ready to get married and start a family until I was done studying and had a good job. I got one of those "We're Hiring" business cards from Google but by the time I graduated, the bar for them (and other FAANGs) was too high. Don't feel like you have to make a change right now - 3 or 4 YoE is a lot more valuable than 1 and I suspect your chances of making a big jump will be higher in such a situation. (Don't wait too long, though. There's a sweet spot. Ten or more YoE without promotions or big raises would probably count against you.) I can't imagine how tough the housing situation is for you Californians. Are you stuck on a single family house or would you live in an apartment, which would be cheaper? A starter apartment might be the way to go until your kids get bigger.
Thank you tooQ10. Sounds like you’re doing well now, at least I hope you are. I love the current company and my the team I am in now. When I found the job, I just new it was mine. This was after applying for over 500 jobs in 3 months time. My team is really understanding and helpful.... but the pay isn’t enough for my current goals. So I cant see myself being with this company for more than 3 years. If I could, I would have stated with this company for 5+ years, but the pay is too little even with the estimated raises. Oh my current role is in Florida and I do love it here as well. But yea, unfortunately all of my family is in CA. I’m the only one of 8 (second youngest) that graduated college and pursued a career in tech. Probably the only one to be able to make 6 figures, at least for now. I opened myself up to move anywhere in the USA to find work, but the end goal was to always go back to the family and then start my own. Housing sucks for CA. It’s a bad time to be poor. I know I can save up, but then that’ll be 5+ more years. Idc if I’m 40, I’ll still produce babies (hopefully lol), but I the gf doesn’t trust in herself as much and I don’t blame her. Once I go back to CA, I think the gf will live with her sister in our hometown (Sacramento) while I get the cheapest apartment/room for rent in SF and save up to buy a house. I’ll commute weekends. I know many companies are offering half time remote work, hopefully that still stands in about a year or two.
@Hippo - sounds like you've got great ambition and confidence, which is great. I posted my situation as a kind of warning; I'm not doing well at all, at least not by the standards of this forum, and I never had the kids I always wanted because by the time I was ready (early 30s), my wife was still in debt and was never ready to try. I'm not the first in my family to go to college but I am the first to go to grad school. It hasn't done me any good pay-wise but it was an amazing experience. Be careful living apart from your GF while you save. I think you want to be together no matter what, even if it costs more. Emotionally people need that connection.
I think getting L4 with a bachelors and 1 YOE will be extremely unlikely unless you have a lot of competing offers or exceptional interview performance. If you stay at your company and apply in a year with 2 YOE, it is still challenging, but not as bad, especially if you manage to get promoted at your current company. I don't think an online MS in data science makes much difference here (unless it is from a brand name school, in which case it can help you get interviews, but it is cheaper and more effective to get referrals); I think working and getting promoted or studying for interviews would be a better use of your free time. Some other points: - If you don't like switching jobs frequently, you should consider that an initial L3 RSU grant will be substantially less than an initial L4 RSU grant. E.g. if you're hired as L3 and get promoted to L4 in 1 year, your initial grant is still L3 level (but your base and refreshers go to L4 level). Alternatively, if you wait 1 year and get hired as L4, you will have an L4 level RSU grant. This may not end up being a big difference if the company is good about keeping pay competitive, but often that is not the case and people complain about external offers beating their internally promoted pay. Check out levels.fyi if you want to weigh the pros and cons based on what you're currently making. - Getting promoted is about more than just working hard. Especially in WFH times, it can be hard to have visibility and recognition for your work (not to mention reorgs). L3 to L4 promotion can move slow at FANG even if you're doing well. - The pay gap between SWE and DS varies by company. At Uber it was quite similar, but this is not the case at other places (e.g. Facebook/Google). You can DM me if you have more questions. Best of luck!
Thank you! I will put your reasoning into the “cons of getting MS” side. I’ve been using levels.fyi to plan my budget and timeline. Heres a quick break down if I go the “safest” route. -with 1.5 YOE, get in as L3 at 150-160k TC -after 2 yrs, promote to L4 at 220k-250k TC Around the time of this promotion, I would be able to buy a home and start a family. Does that salary expectation seem reasonable? Or am I looking at less according to your explanation. I wasn’t aware that RSU grants doesn’t alter much from promotions. I do have a question I forgot to add to the post. While looking at job applications, how does one know if it’s at L3 or L4 level? The Sr, Staff, Lead are easier to guess, but what about the other positions that just say “Data Scientist” with 0-3 YOE? When someone is brought onboard, are the levels predetermined by the job and role? Or can it change depending on the applicant? So maybe a BS + 1 YOE might be offered L3 pay, but someone else with a MS + 2 YOE might get offered L4 for the same exact role/job posting. Speaking if offers, once offered the job, do they specifically say this is at L3,L4 etc level? Or do they just give you a salary and compensation information?
those numbers look about right and I didn't mean to mislead you your initial RSU grant will not change after a promotion, but you also get RSU refresh grants every year you work, and that amount changes once you're promoted; after 4 years your TC usually goes down because your initial RSU grant runs out for Google/FB you apply to a generic Data Scientist opening and your level is determined based on your interview performance. Other places like Uber or Amazon have designations like DS II for L4 and DS or DS I for L3. Usually when a job is posted, there is a range of roles they will consider for it, and the offer goes out to the level they see fit based on your interview performance/experience since you're older than the average BA+1YOE, you can try to leverage any past experience as additional work experience (even if it is not related to DS), but I'm not too sure how that would work out when you're offered the job you can infer level based on TC or job title, but your recruiter will be able to tell you if you ask
I see. Thanks a lot for clarification! I have about a year to study, just need to make a plan and stick to it. And my previous work experience is just as a Bartender, so I don’t think that’ll help me out too much, although it was a contributing factor in me landing my current role.
Facebook and Google will only external-hire at the E4 or higher level. So with your experience, if you can get an interview & offer, you can expect an E4 offer.
To get hired at L4 you have to demonstrate independence and the ability to design complex systems. If you can do that, you can get hired at L4. Keep in mind the hiring process is generally designed to avoid mistakes, so you have to really show all the skills to everyone. But don’t worry, if you’re good enough to get hired at all, and your manager has any kind of competency, you’ll be on a path to L4 soon enough. My advice: learn your craft and don’t worry about things that really don’t matter in the long term. Earn your promotions, don’t chase them.
1. It may be difficult to get in as L4 with 1 YoE (not impossible though). Don't worry, join L3 at a place like Google with 1 YoE and you can easily get promoted to L4 at 2.5 YoE mark with a bit of hard work. 2. If the above option suits you well, it's better you immediately apply and try to get an L3 interview loop. 3. Don't worry about getting an MS. It only gives diminishing returns (an MS grad. here!) If you cannot find anyone to refer you to Google, lemme know (I am new here and still sorting out some logistics 😅)
Right. In all honesty, I will be more than happy if I even landed a role in Google as L3. I just want to see if the possibility of me getting in as an L4 is likely. It’ll save me about a year or two, as in I can start a family 1 year sooner. Thanks for the input! This is my first post on blind. How can I connect with you here? I won’t start applying for jobs until I hit my 1 year mark, but I’m going to start studying for the interviews very soon.
Awesome! I think you have a plan! Just DM me and let's touch bases once again when you are ready to apply to G. Let's also discuss the prep plan there.