I have a 3.2 gpa, though it’s from a top school. It was my own fault (diagnosed with depression, but I own that I wasn’t as hard a worker as I should have been). Been grinding + studying with Anki in my free time the past 1-1.5 years: leetcode hards (top 2% in competitions), OSTEP, systems, architecture, Scott Meyer’s books, C++ talks on YouTube. A lot of other stuff I plan to study as well. Got an offer from Google last summer but hiring freeze prevented me from joining (still in contact with recruiter). Made it to the final round of a MM last year but failed (most likely due to lack of architecture knowledge which I’ve since studied more of). Is it possible to get into these high-tier trading firms like HRT, Jump, and JS? Thoughts on what I should do? I’ve refound my nerd-side, and I genuinely love the grind + studies tbh, but I’m still holding out hope that I can reach this goal. TC: 160k YOE: 3
GPA kinda of matters for some firms (I would think Citadel, D E Shaw, Tower, Radix care to some extent), especially at 3 yoe. Going to a top school is good, having meh relevant past experience isnt that good of a signal either. Probably going to be hard for the afformentioned firms, but JS, HRT, Jump, and lower tier firms like Optiver, DRW, IMC shouldn't care as much about GPA, they might still care about past experience though. In general, the best past experience is (in order of what looks best to a trading firm for C++ roles) 1. other comparable trading firm (doing C++) 2. top FAANG/tech doing C++ (google/meta core libs, apple/msft coreOS) or mid/lower tier Trading Firm C++ 3. other company C++ (BBG, for example) 4. FAANG (non C++) 5. other companies (not C++) You should apply anyway and find out, but as Citadel said, if you cant land something you like now, I'd work your way up (Bloomberg, mid/lower tier trading firm, Google --> top tier firm).
Wow, I appreciate all the detail. I think that plan makes sense. Thanks again!
Tower doesn’t seem to care if someone is already at another shop. CTC doesn’t care (I have a 3.1). No idea about Radix but probably they care less if you’re coming from another shop, cause headhunters have told me it won’t be a problem but Citadel for sure will. Citadel and DE Shaw will still care about it even if you’re at another shop unless it’s a top tier place. Know someone who was at SIG, got cut off from Citadel due to gpa and was told to apply after a few more years of experience. Then there’s 5 Rings, who doesn’t give a shit if you’re not from their target schools (HYPSM and other ivies).
Should be possible if you play it right, but way more difficult than if your education trajectory had been different. Which kind of sucks, because what should count the most is your current skills. But in todays globalised world you have hundreds or thousands of applicants for such jobs, so you can't give everyone a fair chance. I'd recommend either starting from less prestigious trading firms and moving up, or keep expanding your knowledge and perhaps dive deeper into some more niche subject that's related to trading, and try to build a somewhat impressive side project.
Sounds about right. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that!
With your gpa, in this job market, with no prior experience, the hardest part will be getting an interview at a top tier firm. Best bet will be a good referral from someone you actually know. Otherwise, like others have suggested aim for for a lower tier firm, get experience, and then make the move once you’ve got a couple of years of experience under your belt.
Got it. Do you think they’ll still ask about my GPA though even after the couple years of experience? Thank you for taking the time.
They will still ask but they will care less the more experience you have and as long as you’ve done interesting work at a decent enough place since graduating.
There are people at HRT who didn’t go to a top school. You’ll be fine!
Thank you for the vote of confidence. I hope the converse (low GPA, top school) won’t hold me back, but either way thanks again for taking the time!
Of course. Also if you are applying for new grad or internship and don’t get it. Don’t worry. They are super picky doesn’t mean you are a “no” in a year.
Which systems/architecture books have you been studying?
I’ve studied the first 6 chapters of CS:APP, and I’m currently slowly making my way through “What every programmer should know about memory” with the “agner (dot) org (slash) optimize” manuals on my roadmap. Would love to hear if you have any thoughts, critiques, or recommendations!
No one cares about GPA. Also avoid cringy ppl who talk about top schools. This field is social skills, leetcode/sys design, and then being able to apply what you read.
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Let me help you out.. Literally nobody cares about GPA. (Maybe for your first job) Focus on building a resume/portfolio of projects, etc. And get in front of the right people. That is all. ✌️
I thought this’d be the case as well, but I’ve had three or four instances at this point where a recruiter’s said my GPA was a deal-breaker. Thank you for the advice + taking the time to comment. I’m working on a side-project right now and things are going well at work. I appreciate you 🙏
Wrong, finance companies do. HRT/JS/Jump are a bit more lenient on this, but places like Citadel/DEShaw/etc care a lot. OP do you have C++ or finance experience? Working at a lower tier firm like Bloomberg can also help. Lacking top school and top internships/experience hurts.