Munich vs London Long Term (immigrant)
Europe is where I want to be, and Switzerland seems almost perfect with amazing pay, weather, lower taxes than most other countries here, and great QoL. I’m in my 20s. But tech opportunities are very limited outside Google, and both Munich and London are bigger cities than Zurich and offer so much more in terms of fun stuff to do. I also want to optimize for permanent residence and passport as my current one is pretty bad (non-EU Europe). Which one out of the two (Munich, Germany vs London, UK) would you choose? Why? What aspects would you weigh? Here’s my view for now and please do correct me if I’m wrong: UK pros: London seems like a much larger tech hub that has all kinds of opportunities. English is a native language so that wouldn’t be a barrier. It’s very expensive to live there but with a FAANG salary that’s not a big problem. PR in 5 years, citizenship in one more. Education is pretty good (for possible future kids). Can live outside the center for family friendliness. I’m told NHS is quite good. I think my take home pay would be better than in Germany, I could save more I think in short term. Investment opportunities are a bit better (UK has Vanguard for example). London is a much better and more diverse than Munich - better food, entertainment, services. UK cons: PR and passport are not as valuable compared to those I’d get in Germany. Social services in Germany are much better. Healthcare is better. Top university education is free in Germany. Munich is a clean city that’s very livable and family friendly. It’s closer to my home, although not much. If I want to start a business later, being open to EU market is a big deal. Strong welfare system put in place for families. It’s less crowded. Outdoor activities are much better. Weather is a bit better I think. Proximity to other EU countries is a plus as well. Air quality is higher. London Tube isn’t bad; but Munich public transit is even better. Tagging FB and G as I’d probably be working for either of the two.. but relevant for others probably
You can live comfortably with a family of 2 if you make 60k EUR in Munich. I'm very sure that fb and g pays a lot more than that. And chill out, there's a very high chance you're from India not you wrote, "Non EU Europe". Don't be that insecure about you nationality, it's an anonymous platform. Nobody really cares about where you come from. So be honest.
I’m not Indian.
Lol are you Indian?
London is in the league with New York, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Tokyo. Munich is much smaller and more provincial. Bavaria in general is super white — not sure if it’s important to you, but I guess it might
No that’s not a factor I’m considering at all now.
If you are from Subcontinent i would say go for London. Germany is good if you plan to stay here for long and want to put immense effort in language. (3 hours daily till 6-8 months). Without language its very difficult. You cannot even call to book a doc appointment. Everyday life is alot harder for non-speakers here. If u r dying they will only help you after complaining why u r not requesting help in German after-all its Germany.
I’m about B1 now. Would get to C1 in a year I guess
Then you are good. Language is the only problem here.
I lived in Munich for 10 months and couldn’t leave fast enough. Some people love it, I hated it. DM me for details.
Can you elaborate your thoughts here please? DM is knowledge denied to others.
Pros: Beer, biergarten, outdoors if you’re into that Cons: Very conservative, all shops + grocery stores close at 8pm, everything is closed on Sundays, expensive, finding an apartment is actually harder than finding a job I just didn’t like the vibe at all, and on top of that I didn’t get along with the people there either. I’m a native German, so can’t talk much about language barriers, but I still felt like a foreigner. If you want to stay in continental Europe with a good tech job I would probably pick Zurich.
I’d say London by far, as someone in your 20s there’s so much more to do (I’ve visited Munich, but live in London). More opportunities, probably more fun. Remember you don’t have to pick one city for the rest of your life, if you wanted to move you could once you’re older, and relocate to the Munich Office.
I personally would choose Germany. But in your case I'd advise London. Asian here. Moving to Berlin soon. Too much discrimination aginst Asians in London. Don't want my kid to be bullied or stabbed in school. Germans are more humble IMHO. Faster PR. Slower passport though. Language issue for sure, but the language can be learnt
Berlin is awesome! Have fun.
What do you like about Berlin? What are your thoughts on Berlin with family and kids aged 6-8?
I am in England. London is shit IMO but some people love it (I enjoy small cities and countryside more). Also have in mind that UK citizens do not have advantages in EU as of now - with a German passport you can go live in any EU country whenever you like even if you do not work and use healthcare. It was a no brainer London back some years ago - now you need to do your own math.
I'm in a similar situation as you. I'm Indian and wife is American. We were weighing between London, Munich & Zurich. We love outdoors & traveling and not really the going to bar/club often types. I'm good with picking up languages but wife is not. Zurich was our top choice, but getting into Zurich is pretty difficult from what I've read online and only very few well paying companies. After going back & forth between Munich & London, we compromised on London because: - Lot of job opportunities. - No language issues. - Affordability of buying houses around good public schools (Working in Bayarea helped). Zurich & Munich for buying was ridiculous. - Lot more multi cultural (Indian places & people, Mexican food etc etc. Options for brown stuff in Z & M are mleh) - Lots of options to fly out to various places. Pretty much every airlines flies into one of the airports around London. - You can get access decent outdoors if you live a little south of London. - Flying home to India is a direct flight. (was not the option in Z & M) - (I might be wrong). Germany seems like it needed a lot of effort to settle in initially. Simple things seemed harder due to technology not being used and language barrier. Good luck.
If wife is American what’s the reason behind moving from US to europe since you dont have visa issues? You are looking at a massive pay cut in both UK and germany.
combination of - Me wanting to be closer to India. Parents were having trouble flying ~24hrs. This cuts it down to less than half. I can do more short visits as well. (This is the major reason) - Wife wanted to try living outside of US. - Bit of grass is greener on the other side thinking. TC drop is :shrug. Both of us will work and it should be more than comfortable. If we don't like it, can always return. So, might as well do it now rather than later.
I vote for Munich based on the pros and cons you listed. But that’s purely my personal preference.