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What happens when most of your team is Indian?
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Blind makes it seem like Amazon PIPs are the worst of the industry. However, seems like other FAANG companies also have PIP processes, just less publicized. Is Amzn’s PIP process that much worse than FB?#engineering #software #swe #facebook #amazon #fb #amzn #pip
FB only PIPs truly incompetent folks and there's no percentage requirement (usually 2% or so). Its a good thing to keep us from becoming a Google with a bunch of coasters and incompetent folk.
yes, it was extremely demotivating having slackers or incompetent people on the team at G. Guess where work gets redistributed. Affects your promo path too since team performance matters.
Shouldnt that help your promo you are compared against your peers and if some are coasting you are automatically better than them.
Amazon has a larger sample of ppl in blind maybe? I have no idea how many ppl fb has
Blind overhypes FB PIPs because it's all echo chamber by non-FB employees or people who got rejected. What matters is people who actually work at these companies. Check out difference in tone between the PIP posts too: See for yourself-FB employee started PIP threads in 2020: https://www.teamblind.com/post/I-am-on-PIP-Should-I-take-the-generous-severance-yGfHReL0 Amazon employee started PIP related Threads (in May / June alone after 2 min search - didn't want to continue reading): https://www.teamblind.com/post/Dont-fight-PIPdev-plan-My-success-story-AMA-EZSyDYVW https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-PIP-YfpQuR4B https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-Pip-Escalation-To-Survive-jRY0TnLZ https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-devlist-exit-plan-uAwneLsU https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-Fulfillment-Technology-is-destroying-my-mental-health-of1VuKry https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-Pip-h3rGMToY https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-and-panic-attacks-604JnMF0 https://www.teamblind.com/post/Amazon-FOCUSPIVOTPIP-Questions-qr8sRLK5 https://www.teamblind.com/post/Dont-come-to-Amazon-if-you-are-T07vd3UN
^ agree with the comment above, FB is a pretty damn good place to work and I view the small number of PIPs as a net positive. If you're in the bottom 2%, sorry but your not cut out to work at FB (or any top tech company).
I wonder if the fact that Amazon’s workforce is wayyy bigger than Facebook’s is taken into account. Because Amazon has a need for so many developers, I think the interview process is sometimes significantly compromised. This would mean the employees hired without proper interview vetting might end up not meeting the bar, and therefore get PIP’d. Not saying this is the case, I’m just wondering if it’s a factor
how big is amazon's corporate employee base?
Not sure worldwide but in Seattle about 50k.
I may be wrong .. may be the volume of employees might make a difference. Say fb has 1000 employees and 10% reduction will be 100 cut , on the other hand if amazon has 10000 employees in the same context it will be 1000. Does it makes sense or am I completely wrong
wrong because amazon isn't 10x the size of FB. Corporate amazon is only about 2x as large which doesn't explain the volume of posts above.
Amazon's culture is also shit where developers are treated like cattle, and they'll find any excuse to get rid of someone ASAP. (I interned at Amazon when I was in college). FB values it's devs and invests in them with much higher TC. This attracts good talent and creates an amazing developer culture.
I know a few G folks who wish pip was more aggressive there.
I recently PIPed an L4 - since he was at the bottom of the stack rank for a group of 35. He got E4 (equivalent of L5) at FB in no time. Should give you an idea :-)
So you had to PIP because they were at bottom of stack at amazon, then they moved to fb and got promoted very quickly?
Not promoted - they got hired at a higher level while being PIPed. And bottom of the stack in my group - not across Amazon.
i just was piped at amazon after 4 months of employment. The manager didn't like me at all. He was a minority guy with tendency toward his own minorities.
Did you feel like you had a good first impression of him before you on boarded the team?
Lemme guess, by "minority guy" you mean Indian, right? :-)
Do only AMZN SDE get pip’d or are pretty much any role is unsafe like SA or TAM?
Every role!
generally speaking, @amzn there is no culture of nurturing talents, it's always about "who'd you throw out of the boat". There is little to no discussion about who's really bad, it's always about "who's your bottom" and are you able to push your sibling manager's bottom to pip, if not then he'll push yours. At SDE level this is not quite visible (not so harsh), even thought the PIP rules are opened and every and each SDE (while working) is checking did he done enough to match the bar, and believe me there is always something you'd need to sacrifice to succeed with your deliveries. If you look at amzn LPs it becomes pretty obvious: Customer Obsession, Deliver Results, Be right a lot, Disagree and commit, Frugality, Bias for action.. - it's all about money making. sadly, Amazon is just about business (the money) and nothing personal.
facebook pip percent is low single digits. No mandatory dev list quota like amazon. So yea, night and day difference. Just compare number of pip threads by FB and Amazon. Since beginning of 2020, I see one thread by a FB employee asking about PIP with generous severance, 15+ from Amazon for May/June alone.
Amazon’s hiring bar is way lower than FB’s which explains the need to PIP so many devs
if PIP is a way to also compensate for the low hiring bar, I don't think thats too bad.